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All they are saying is "Give Hamas a Chance" (Read 612 times)
zionistguy
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All they are saying is "Give Hamas a Chance"
10/12/05 at 14:11:05
 
Hamas won't go away, and neither will the voices calling for recognition. Here's an article by Gershon Baskin calling for recognition of Hamas. We can agree that Israel can't stop the Hamas from participating by force. That doesn't mean the Hamas should be allowed to participate. The PNA has to stop the Hamas, and if they won't then the US and EU must do so.

It says:

Quote:
"preventing the participation of a major player in the eyes of a large part of Palestinian society delegitimizes the very idea of democracy."

****
I know that's the current "conventional wisdom." But wouldn't it apply equally to:

Quote:
"preventing the participation of a major player in the eyes of a large part of German society delegitimizes the very idea of democracy."


Would it have been right or wrong to ban the NAZI party?

How about Kach?

G. Baskin wrote:

Quote:
Hamas is a real political-social force in Palestinian society that cannot be discounted.


Al Qaida is a real political social force in Islamic society and the German National Socialist Workers party was a real force in German society that couldn't be discounted. Coke dealers are a real political-social force in US society. That is not an argument for allowing them to participate in the democratic process.

Baskin wrote:
Quote:
"Sharon and Abbas must reach an understanding for the participation of Hamas in the elections that will be based on Abbas's commitment to implement the "one authority one gun" policy in full - following the balloting. "


In the Weimar Republic, they already had "one authority, one gun." But then the authority and the gun got into the hands of the bad guy.

If Abbas cannot disarm the Hamas before the elections, how will he be able to disarm them when they have 50% of the vote?

Baskin wrote:

Quote:
The massive launch of arrests by Israel of Hamas activists in the West Bank over the past two weeks has led to a weakening of Abbas's public legitimacy to confront Hamas.


Either it weakened Abbas, or it weakened Hamas and strengthened Abbas. By the above logic, Hamas would be stronged and Abbas weakest, if Israel arrested every Hamas member. But the arrests are what got Hamas to raise the white flag and agree to a truce.

Baskin wrote:

Quote:
Hamas's own behavior in recent weeks, beginning with the explosion in Jabaliya that killed 19 people and followed by the irresponsible launching of Kassam rockets into Israel.


Irresponsible implies that the goals of Hamas are basically ok, but the means are wrong. A Zionist who wanted to kill Arabs in principle but disapproved of untactful methods might write "irresponsible" about settlers murdering Palestinians. If it was your kids in Sderot, you wouldn't say "irresponsible." You would say "criminal," because that is what it was.

Prof. Baskin wrote:
Quote:
Abbas needs for Hamas to participate in the elections, but not to win enough seats to have to include them in his next government
.

Hitler got 32%. It was enough. Hamas will probably got 20-30% of the vote. Then if they are excluded, the same people will say "it is not democracy.

Prof. Baskin wrote:
Quote:
Abbas's real challenge is to gain enough legitimacy prior to the elections to ensure a large victory for Fatah and other independent forces that could join a coalition.


It could be accomplished by rigging the elections, but it could not be accomplished any other way, unless the elections are postponed for a while (which Abbas is thinking of doing)-- about 10 years might be enough. In a period of six months or so, it is impossible.


The Hamas dilemma
Gershon Baskin, THE JERUSALEM POST  Oct. 11, 2005
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1128955352950&pagename=JPost%2FJPA...

The tahdiya cease-fire agreement between the Palestinian factions is based on an internal Palestinian understanding that Hamas is going through a process of "domestification." Hamas has participated in the local municipal elections and is planning to participate in the national elections for the Palestinian parliament. Hamas is a real political-social force in Palestinian society that cannot be discounted.

Mahmoud Abbas understands that the only way to weaken Hamas's appeal among the Palestinian public is to strengthen the appeal of Fatah. Hamas's public attraction has been consistently strengthened over the years due to the inability of the Palestinian Authority to produce political, social and economic results that improve the lives of the Palestinian people. Coupled with years of corruption inspired by the system of control that Yasser Arafat instituted, Fatah and the Palestinian Authority are fighting an uphill battle to gain the confidence of the public prior to elections.

Abbas ran on a ticket of non-violence and diplomacy. He promised the Palestinian people that diplomacy and non-violence would produce political, social and economic results that would improve their lives. Instead of being able to deliver on those promises so far, most of the Palestinian public  believes that Israel was forced out of Gaza as a result of the violence led by the Hamas.

Abbas does believe that there must be "one authority and one gun" in Palestine and that Hamas must be disarmed and brought into legitimate Palestinian political life. He does not believe, however, that he has the public legitimacy or real capacity to confront Hamas by force. Abbas knows that he is playing with fire by not confronting Hamas, but he also knows that the fire would be even hotter if he did confront them. Hamas's own behavior in recent weeks, beginning with the explosion in Jabaliya that killed 19 people and followed by the irresponsible launching of Kassam rockets into Israel, is beginning to open up space for greater public legitimacy to confront Hamas.

The massive launch of arrests by Israel of Hamas activists in the West Bank over the past two weeks has led to a weakening of Abbas's public legitimacy to confront Hamas. But on Sunday evening the first confrontation took place and resulted in an evening of rioting with three people killed - two from Hamas and one Palestinian policeman and dozens wounded.

Israel's calls, supported by the US, to prevent Hamas from participating in the elections may be legitimate from the point of view of the commitments that Abbas has undertaken within the road map to dismantle the terrorist infrastructure. On the other hand, preventing the participation of a major player in the eyes of a large part of Palestinian society delegitimizes the very idea of democracy.

HAMAS IS definitely going through a process of soul-searching and evolution. Two of the Hamas activists arrested by Israel this past week are people who have begun to reshape the Hamas agenda and have even suggested that it is possible to change the Hamas covenant that calls for the destruction of Israel. Hamas leader Sheikh Hassan Youssef has said that a 10-year hudna with Israel is possible and it could even be renewed for another 10 years if Israel withdraws from all of the occupied territories. Arrested Hamas leader Muhammad Ghazal has stated that the Hamas covenant is not the Koran and it can be changed. The arrest of these leaders by Israel has weakened Abbas and has strengthened Hamas - not quite the result that Israel should be interested in achieving.

There is a real dilemma for Israel regarding Hamas. If Hamas runs in the elections and wins a majority, or wins enough seats in the parliament to create a coalition government with Fatah, can Israel be expected to negotiate in the future with the Palestinian Authority? Can a partner be defined as someone who seeks your destruction? The answer is obviously no.

Can Israel force the Palestinian Authority to prevent the participation of Hamas in the elections and expect anyone to view those elections as being democratic, free and legitimate? The answer is also no.

Abbas needs for Hamas to participate in the elections, but not to win enough seats to have to include them in his next government. Abbas's real challenge is to gain enough legitimacy prior to the elections to ensure a large victory for Fatah and other independent forces that could join a coalition. Only with a strong enough victory for those forces in Palestine that support a diplomatic process of negotiations will Abbas have the ability and the legitimacy to enforce the law of "one authority one gun" after the elections.

IN ORDER for Abbas to gain public support he must produce real results in the coming months. There must be an opening up of the territories. Investments and job-creation projects that the international community has promised must be
implemented without delay.

The average Palestinian citizen must be able to understand that war and violence cost and peace pays. That is the bottom line and Israel has a crucial role to play. Prime Minister Ariel Sharon must stretch out the hand of Israel to Abbas and the Palestinian Authority and must engage now.

There are some good beginnings. Last week the IDF notified the Palestinian Authority of an attempt by some people to cross the border into Israel illegally. The PA security forces took action and arrested three young people. No one was killed and the security coordination at the field level worked. This must be increased.

The Karni crossing, which is the lifeline of Gaza, had been closed for almost two weeks in response to the shelling of Sderot. The crossing has only now been reopened.

Israel must act in unison with the Palestinian Authority and with the international community which is willing to put observers and even troops onthe Palestinian side in order to enhance security and efficiency. This offer of support must be accepted by Israel and coordinated with the Palestinian Authority.

Daily contact between Palestinian and Israeli governmental ministries must be established and encouraged. Binyamin Ben-Eliezer, the minister of national infrastructure, together with his PA counterpart, Azzam Shawwa, has taken the lead on developing cooperation. The ministries of tourism and transportation on both sides have followed suit and new agreements for cooperation have been reached. Abbas and Sharon must also establish a good working relationship that includes daily contact and cooperation. The two leaders speaking to each other should not be a lead news item; it must become part of a daily routine.

Sharon and Abbas must reach an understanding for the participation of Hamas in the elections that will be based on Abbas's commitment to implement the "one authority one gun" policy in full - following the balloting. This can be achieved if it is clear that both sides are committed to implementing their road-map obligations.

Sharon has stated that there will not be any more unilateral moves by Israel. The alternative to unilat eralism is political engagement. Unilateralism strengthens the forces against peace in both societies and reengagement, negotiations, coordination and cooperation strengthens the forces of peace and non-violence. There are real choices to be made by both sides and the right choice should be clear to them both.

The writer, based in Jerusalem, is co-CEO of the Israel/Palestine Center for
Research & Information.
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WendyL
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Re: All they are saying is "Give Hamas a Chan
Reply #1 - 10/24/05 at 23:53:32
 
I do like seeing headlines like this--"Israel will not hamper Palestinian vote" rather than "Israel picks and chooses Palestinian political parties" or "Israeli bans Hamas." it would lead to many stories about Begin and Shamir's backgrounds and whether some parties like Lehi were banned in Israel's history.
I detest Hamas. But I am encouraged that it seems to enjoy only 30 percent support from Palestinians. Only 30 percent, despite the fact that every other party is corrupt, weak and useless. Let Hamas run. Otherwise, Algeria's example awaits. --Wendy

Israel will not hamper Palestinian vote
By Ori Lewis
JERUSALEM, Oct 23 (Reuters) - Israel does not plan to hamper upcoming Palestinian parliamentary elections even if Hamas Islamic militants take part, Israeli officials said on Sunday in an apparent shift from earlier threats.
Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said last month that Israel could hinder voting in the occupied West Bank if the elections were contested by Hamas, which is sworn to destroying Israel and has spearheaded a Palestinian uprising.
"Israel will not help the Palestinians if Hamas takes part, but neither will it hamper the voting in areas where Israel has control," an official in Sharon's office told Reuters.
The apparent change followed a lead set by the United States, Israel's key ally, after a White House meeting last week between President George W. Bush and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, who wants to bring Hamas nearer the political mainstream.
An administration official said the United States still saw Hamas as a terrorist group but it was up to the Palestinians to decide who could take part in the election -- the first that Hamas plans to contest. It boycotted the previous vote in 1996.
MOMENTUM
The United States hopes to use the momentum from Israel's withdrawal from the occupied Gaza Strip in September to revive negotiations on a "road map" for Palestinian statehood.
Abbas has shied from disarming groups like Hamas, a process that the Palestinians are meant to start under the road map. But he has said that Hamas would no longer need to keep its weapons after elections.
Hamas, currently following an eight-month-old truce, has rejected any suggestion that it would disarm.
Hamas spokesman Sami Abu Zuhri said any change in the Israeli position on the election was "just for public relations". He accused Israel of hampering the ballot already by arresting hundreds of suspected militants, including many Hamas members, in the West Bank.
Polls show Hamas has about 30 percent support amongst Palestinians. Its charity network and perceived lack of corruption, as well as its suicide bombings, have won it support at the expense of the dominant Fatah movement.
Israeli Justice Minister Tzipi Livni said that there could be no question of Israel negotiating with Hamas for now and that the group had to show that it had changed.
"As far as we are concerned, Hamas must make a decision now -- either to participate in politics or to continue to be a terror organisation," she told Israel Radio.
Israel has said there will be no talks on Palestinian statehood unless militant groups are disarmed, but it has also not met its own road map commitment to freeze West Bank settlement building.
(Additional reporting by Mohammed Assadi in Ramallah)
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Re: All they are saying is "Give Hamas a Chan
Reply #2 - 10/25/05 at 00:02:12
 
Good point and thanks for updating this discussion. The question is how this will play out.

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Re: All they are saying is "Give Hamas a Chance"
Reply #3 - 07/22/08 at 10:30:37
 
Well... Now.. years after disengagement and leaving Gaza for palestinian rule, we can see how the state of Hamasstan was created.
State of fear and terror, both for palestinians and Israel.
What is the alternative? To go back and control Gaza by the military force?
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Re: All they are saying is "Give Hamas a Chance"
Reply #4 - 02/16/09 at 18:23:15
 
Barry wrote on 07/22/08 at 10:30:37:
Well... Now.. years after disengagement and leaving Gaza for palestinian rule, we can see how the state of Hamasstan was created.
State of fear and terror, both for palestinians and Israel.
What is the alternative? To go back and control Gaza by the military force?



I think Israel must put Gaza Strip under her control , not only because Terrorism of" hamas dogs " but also because Gaza Strip is a part  from the state of Israel .
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