Replies: 5 Comments
As usual you out did your self. It's too bad that the religious continue to deny that our existance. As for Ed,
After we secularists did all of the fighting, bleeding and building you moved from the states to your large and comfortable villas in "Eretz Yisrael".
As for whose side 'HaShem' is on, he is on the side of those who do not defame his honor.
When I can see the cleaning up of the cesspool of the "ultra religious", and all of the actions that the Nazi's used against us in their propaganda war, i.e. Lying, blackmail, thievery, murder, prostitution, white slavery, etc. Then you can talk about Sodom and Gamorah to me.
As for the billions of our 'secular' tax monies and contributions to build up the wasteful Gaza settlements and the millions wasted on the West Bank-your 'Kingdom of Judah" and the hours and days that my sons and I wasted guarding your snobbish and totally ungrateful 'friends' then I'll be glad to blow smoke in your eyes.
Also Ed how would you like spending 35 days a year guard 10 ungrateful snobby New York born religious couples,who by the way shouldn't have had children for the way they disregarded theirs. They reaked and there homes reaked. Their kids where dirtier than the Arabs who lived near by, who by the way where nicer to us than them. As a parent I couldn't understand how 'HaShem' was on their side. They kept 'Shabbat'? They studied? Big Deal!!! They were like the original religious 'Juden' that lived on 'Halokah'. They studied? I never saw it. They were too busy stoning the Arabs, tearing up their olive trees and driving me and my soldiers up the preverbal wall. Not once did we receive a word of kindness, thought we guarded them day in, and day out-rain and shine, cold and hot. So my 'secular' soldiers from the 'Gmorrah' of Tel Aviv, who by the way lost out on the University studies,they aren't given money like the 'Chavre' either. Did their duty without question. So where do you have the frigging audacity to open your mouth?
big_yakov, Wednesday, November 15th
I never considered modern Zionism separable from its launching pad in Europe, which is to say, The Dreyfus Affair in France. I can't see today's Zionism as being given the credibility it did among Jews without those events, which preceded even The Holocaust. It was the event inside France which alarmed Herzl, of course. Those events were the foundation for his arguments in his famous essay. -- thanks, Lurene Gisee
Lurene Gisee, Tuesday, November 14th
Ami Iseroff in her valiant defense of 'secular' Zionism (which today has few true ideological adherents in Israel) forgets one not so tiny detail, there would be NO Israel today if it wasn't for Ha Shem's promise of Eretz Israel as a home for His Nation, Am Israel. The secularists would have considered Uganda or Argentina, etc. There is no reason for Jews to live in the Land of Israel without that elemental root!!!
Dr. Moshe Israel, Tuesday, November 14th
The article is filled with its own assumptions and contradictions. The author condemns Eidelberg for the use of old definitions and avoiding reality. He then defines Zionism by using the First Zionist Congress. While it is true that the First Zionist Congress defined Zionism, it is not true that this is the definition that most Jews follow today. Most of them are not even aware of it.
The real question is how most Jews living in Israel view it. Whether the reason for being there is to have a safe haven (political Zionism) or to fulfill the dream that is found in the Bible (idealistic Zionism) whether it is connected to God or not.My own experience after serving as a community Rabbi in Israel (Kfar Saba) for over twenty years is that the latter is more prevalent. It includes the religious community, the Haredi (You can be an idealistic Zionist but against a secualr State)and a large portion of what usually is called secular Jews. They will not say it themselves but they will respnd positively to the idea when it is presented to them. They can see Israel as the fulfillment of a dream of thousands of years and appreciate the central position that the Jewish nation has played in the unfolding of history.They can also understand the irony that the battles that we are fighting withour neighbors are battles for this story.
The question as to whether we can make this work and build a modern State based on the dream, is the most important question facing Jews in this century.
My Foundation The Yad Yaakov Fund (yaadyaakov.org) is trying to do just this. You are welcome to join with us.
Yosef Leibowitz, Tuesday, November 14th
Ami, you have stepped off the deep end, while at present it is true thatprof. Eidelbergs philosophy has not come to pass, I will look at Hebrew history with a much longer timespan than the past 58 years to determine the permanence of todays Israel compared with Israel of historical past...that of Noach ,who was saved out of all the secularists who perished, and Avraham along with his Grandfather of ten generations passt and Eber his so, and even Terah who was ransomed from a secular life
all were preserved while the secularists perished, even Nimrod the chief secularist was slain by Esau while hunting...tho Esau was himself a secularist, he was used to dispose of the rebellious chief secularist,...then later in Israels history, we see another head secularist arise in Egypt ,pharaoh,whom Hashem had to prove wrong again...with Moses and Aaron as His spokesmen.....every world leader who has opposed the will of Hashem concerning Israel down thru all history were secularists....even in Babylon the model of all bsecular society, where as you say anyone may practice their own religion.....yet people like Edelberg are still around to jab the pricks into the tender skin of secularists today...because he has an eye for lasting Zionism.....not the temporaery type you espouse.....of course we must have Moschiah to defeat hasatan first before the true Zionism that prof. Edelberg speaks of can flourish....so in the meantime we have a defective Zionism...consisting of the body of jews but in many cases ,lacking the true soul who is devoted to Torah, and Hashem first....so we may define you secularists in an old hebrew term known as [jewish golems] instead of real com0plete jews...yes Ami, chaver, thats what you definitly are [a jewish golem] lacking an important part of your intended makeup....it was a matter of choosing good over evil...maybe you have not yet had your eyes opened...do we need another Sodom and Gommorah to help you see Achi..??
there were 5 towns full of secularists in Israel that were very impressed by Hashems demonstration, in fact in 2 of those there were no survivors....secularists could learn from this that Zionism that lasts is from above....all the works of men perish
I'll have to vote for Edelberg's definition of Zionism, thats the kind I support....SEE YOU WHEN THE SMOKE CLEARS....ed lintz
ed lintz, Tuesday, November 14th
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