Replies: 7 Comments

Well, Ami, indeed that's what I wrote about HRW: the produced evidence of war crimes. Not all of it was hearsay (and please not that some hearsay evidence of Israeli war crimes is coming from Israeli soldiers). Some of it was based on other types of evidence collected by HRW.

ofer, Monday, March 31st

Ofer,
Evidently you have a reading comprehension difficulty. As this may be shared by other readers, I will state the obvious: Nothing in what I wrote precludes reporting about misdeeds of Israel. Furthermore, I will repeat again that HRW did not and could not conclude that Israel committed war crimes. HRW claimed that it had evidence of war crimes. Since the evidence is based on hearsay, it cannot be accepted as definitive. The same sort of hearsay evidence claimed that Israel had killed 500 people in Jenin. However, HRW's allegations should be covered by the press and investigated.

Betselem and HRW are sources for media - they are actors in the drama, just like Mubarak, Olmert, Abbas and Haniyeh. They are not media. If the organization is going to monitor media, they should stick to that mission.

Ami Isseroff, Saturday, March 29th

Ami, my claim was as simple as this:

When you state that fabricated allegations have been made about Israel's conduct, without referring to reports indicating that war crimes have been committed, your readers may be led to believe that you think Israel did not commit serious war crimes in Gaza and Jenin.

Your implied analogy between Israel's conduct and (mere) tax evasion suggests that perhaps it is your view, unfortunately.

Btselem and HRW are info outlets, and what they issue is often covered by the press, so they are relevant here.

I don't know what "my organization" is but I and the people active around me share HRW's principles.

Your comment "Your logic appears to me to be as follows, "It is OK for the newspapers to say that X committed mass murder, because an organization claimed that his income tax was irregular and should be investigated."

is contradicted by my first sentence

"Honest coverage is very important" (let me add "crucial")

ofer, Saturday, March 29th

HRW is not a Media outlet and neither for that matter is Betselem. I found the inclusion of Betselem in the Just Journalism report rather strange.

Of course we point out whenever HRW and Amnesty condemn the Hamas and Hezbollah. Does your organization point this out??

Ofer, your comment is not relevant here. The question is not whether or not Israel committed war crmes, but whether the media are providing fair and balanced coverage. To their credit, HRW helped to debunk the Jenin story, but much of the media would not listen. Does your organization still laud Bakri's fictitious film ??

Your logic appears to me to be as follows, "It is OK for the newspapers to say that X committed mass murder, because an organization claimed that his income tax was irregular and should be investigated." There are a few things wrong with this idea. HRW said there was evidence that should be investigated. You do not seem to understand that Israel too, is innocent until proven guilty. Likewise, you seem to think that alleged wrongdoing by Israel in one instance, is a license for falsification and fabrications about other instances.

Ami Isseroff

Ami Isseroff, Saturday, March 29th

seems my mail was not entered properly, so here it is

ofer, Saturday, March 29th

Honest coverage is very important. However, we shouldn't be making life too easy for ourselves by discussing only those info sources that used general terms (without presenting facts) for Israeli actions in Jenin (2002) or in Gaza recently.

Numerous sources, including human rights organizations, such as the US based Human Rights Watch, have documented Israeli actions that may amount to war crimes, in Jenin and Gaza too. Their reports have been full of factual material. Of course, one is free to scrutinize and present objections, but claims about war crimes, including murder, cannot be dismissed as easily as claims about "Genocide".

Here is a link:
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http://hrw.org/english/docs/2002/05/03/isrlpa3899.htm

" Israel/Occupied Territories: Jenin War Crimes Investigation Needed "
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Needless to say (but maybe not on this website?), reports about war crimes committed against Israeli citizens (using the term "war crimes") have also been issued by HRW:

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http://hrw.org/reports/2007/iopt0707/5.htm

'Palestinian Rocket Attacks since the IDF Withdrawal"
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Ami, I hope you will not delete this comment too, unless you think Human Rights Watch are a Neo-Nazi hate group or something similar.



Ofer

ofer, Saturday, March 29th

One of the famous quotes from Mark Twain is that "A lie can go around the world three times before the truth can get its pants on."

One might suspect that this speed of transmission and the inability of the truth to properly follow, hunt down, and dispatch a lie is what makes it such a worthwhile tactic. I note with fascination that the ancient forgery termed "The Protocols of the Elders of Zion" still persists in its mischief so long past its introduction to the world stage. That fills me with rage and an obligation to be pitiless to the enemies of Israel and the Jews.

Howard Wolf, Saturday, March 29th

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