ZioNation - Progressive Zionism and Israel Web Log

ZioNation home Archives Site map Policy Definitions FAQ timeline history documents Links Photos Contact

Articles and Reference

History of Zionism and Israel
Middle East Encyclopedia
History of Anti-Semitism
History of Anti-Zionism
Encylopedic Dictionary of Zionism and Israel
Zionism and its Impact
Zionism - Issues & answers
Maps of Israel
Six Day War
War of Independence
Bible  Quotes
1948 Israel War of Independence Timeline Christian Zionism
Christian Zionism History
Gaza & the Qassam Victims of Sderot
Zionist Quotes
Learn Hebrew
Israel Boycott?
Boycott Israel?
Palestinian Campaign for the Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel
Jew Hate
International Zionism
Commentary in Russian
Middle East
The Grand Mufti Hajj Amin Al Husseini
Albert Einstein
Palestine: Ethnic Cleansing
History Arab-Israeli Conflict
Boycott Israel?
Amnesty International Report on Gaza War

Subscribe to
email newsletter for this site and others

Powered by groups.yahoo.com

I find it imperative to take a moment from my self-inflicted enlistment into the electronic media war to finally write something of my own to my own.

After two weeks of combat, I am a little weary of firing on deaf ears. There seems to be a need to raise the morale amongst those in my own ranks and heal some of the battle wounds that the foreign (outside of Israel) media may have managed to inflict upon some of you. I have noticed and heard that there are some hairline cracks in folks' outlook and opinion of what Israel is doing, and so this is a short break to reinforce some of your foundations. My break is only a result of battle weariness, and not because of any lack of ammunition. Quite the opposite. The foreign media fuel my ammunition dumps exponentially each minute with their bias (at best) and outright lies (as second best). I have been shouting in silent type for two weeks, and despite apparently doing it again here and now, in yet another email, this time I would like to freely add some politically incorrect thoughts and let some emotion erupt.

It is disturbing enough to hear and see the world opinion and media, which include calls for our annihilation. It is even more disturbing to have to spend limited energies on arguing my case to those (of "us") who doubt the justification of this operation, its magnitude and time-span. I need to address our critics, those of "us" who are critical and condemn Israel's actions in the current operation in the Gaza area.

While I value opinion and discussion at all times, I will not tolerate any negative opinion or criticism right now. Many critics have been sitting in glass houses (with a sense of security due to Israel's existence) before the operation, and now seem ready to throw stones (at best). I am not only referring to Jews in the Diaspora, but also to those in Israel (some found it suitable to demonstrate in Tel Aviv against the operation in Gaza and to wave Palestinian flags). The only criticism I am open to is criticism of our own bad choices.

We make "bad choices" when it comes to dealing with the Arabs.

We "chose" to fight a number of wars against our Arab neighbors, one of them on our holiest days. We "chose" to fight against suicide bombers and shrewdly disguise our violence by erecting a fence (only 2% is wall) to keep them out. You see, we militant Israelis, we like choosing violence. It took the trigger-happy Zionist generals and politicians seven years of continuous rocket fire to choose to go to war.

Unfortunately, once again, we are at war.

Unfortunately, some require clarification and elaboration of the above. This war is not academic, nor a war of words or politics. Right now it is a war in which real blood is shed, in which people are maimed and killed. "People" means soldiers, terrorists, militants, families, elderly and children. "Maimed" means crippled and traumatized. Oh...on both sides, notice my choice of words. (Glad I cleared that one up for some.)

There is one thing that we perpetually choose too, if you really need me to point it out.

We chose life.

We'd like to choose to live our lives in our country without having to build bomb shelters in every building since our independence 60 years ago. We choose to warn innocent civilians of an impending bombardment with flyers, phone calls and stun grenades. We chose to offer almost all of the West Bank in peace talks at Camp David, Annapolis and other talks. We chose to warn the Hamas about officially ending the cease-fire "lull." We chose to try turning a blind-eye to the rockets that were launched during the "lull" and seven previous years. We chose this war option.

We "chose" war. We chose war despite knowing and living the ramifications of war. We chose to send our soldiers to war. "Our soldiers" is not an idiom. It means family, friends, colleagues, neighbors -- i.e., people we know firsthand. We chose to take the calculated risk that some will not return, and that others will return maimed for life.

During an ongoing war, I find the audacity of some of my own putrid. It sickens me to hear misinformed foreign-media-fed misguided individuals pass negative opinion and criticism. I find it uncanny not to leave the academic rhetoric aside, while blood is being shed. We are engaged in fighting enough enemies on enough fronts. We do not need an internal front, too. Some Diaspora Jews freely enjoy the sense of security that just the pure existence of Israel provides. Now, some spit into the well. Whether it be democratic, free, enlightened, correct or not, I'll hit anyone I catch p*ssing on a grave during a funeral. Furthermore, you'd probably find me refusing to even discuss my actions, and with a smirk on my face. Perhaps that might awaken a sense of duty to give a hand, an ear or a shoulder to the pains of war.

War is synonymous with pain, suffering and bloodshed. We, as war-mongering Israelis, have lots of experience. So much so, that (listen carefully to this): I may one day forgive our enemies for killing our people in pursuit of their ideology, but I will never forgive them for forcing me into a situation in which I have killed some of their innocents. I suggest reading the latter again. Only when the Arabs can honestly understand this will they be ready for true peace. Until then, we will remain in a cycle of violence and war that has war-ups and truce-downs. The truces, lulls, and whatever trashy names they may use, are only types of pseudo-surrenders that they agree to, in order to recuperate.

So, dear brethren, if you still harbor any doubt at all or need some ammo for those who do, one question remains: "What is your alternative to this war?"

I was going to end here, but feel that I need to elaborate for those whose vision has been obscured by the likes of Pallywood smoke screens and political rhetoric. Let me put it another way, "What do you propose we do to ensure that our kids go to school safely?" Hmmm....Let's look at the most common answer to the current situation:

"Stop the operation immediately and negotiate".

We have been there already - didn't work. There was a "cease-fire", a "lull", during which the Hamas terrorists militants lobbed rockets into Israel and armed themselves for their "final solution." Who publicly and proudly announced the end of the "lull"? Who sent 900,000 civilians into bomb shelters?

Negotiate? With whom exactly? A radical group that openly seeks our total annihilation at all costs (and they are crying now at the cost, poor things). A fanatic terrorist group that came into power after a violent coup, intent on "freeing all Palestine of Jews?" If you really need to ensure that my facts are correct, then look up the Hamas charter. I consider myself "a nice guy" and am open to discussion, but don't know how to go about it. Please set an example by negotiating with Al-Qaeda and then teach me how it works.

Let's take this little further. "Do you know what Hamas wants?" Hmmm... I suspect they don't either although it is in their charter. "Do you know what they expected to achieve by firing rockets into Israel?" Hmmm... I have no idea. So let's look at their charter again. I suspect it is a word that begins with a big "T" and has three "r"s. They once wanted us out of Gaza. We are out of Gaza. So? Now what? Any ideas?

Oh yeah... I almost forgot. So if the war now might seem justified, criticism turns to the use of "disproportionate" force. The British (oh I just love the Brits -- BBC, Sky, Tim Marshall, Tim Butcher and the other blatant liars who act as journalists instead of Pallywood), bombed Dresden disproportionately, citizens, hospitals, all of it! Before pointing a finger at Israel, please make sure that: you pointed a finger at Hamas for seven years; have made sure that civilian deaths are an integral part of Israeli policy; make sure that Israel is publicly proud of civilian deaths and distribute sweets with each; have lodged complaints against the Hamas for using human shields; and...and...and... Then, and only then, might I be prepared to hear gripes from "ours."

Well, Israel is here, a fact and a reality. I am here and not going anywhere. Right or wrong, I'm not going anywhere and neither are my people. I am going to choose violence when negotiations and warnings go nowhere and my children remain in danger. I'm going to be very violent to try to ensure a brighter future for my children and brethren, whether it includes war or not.

Some say that violence breeds violence. It sure does. It sure has, I am now violent. I reached a dead end after seven years of exhausting all peaceful options and turning a blind eye to over 4,000 rockets. History doesn't seem to be able to teach the other side anything. Perhaps someone has a way of getting it through to them. Please enlighten me. I'll type it slowly for you and whisper it for those that cannot easily read vulgarities:

Don't f*** with us! You have chosen to force us to remain mightier, we have and will, until you choose otherwise.

I am not going to wrap this in airy political, democratic, diplomatic or academic cellophane. That is the bottom line, the bare truth. I remain proud of my vulgarity that stems from our basic right to protect our citizens. I remain proud of our attempts to prevent civilian casualties, on both sides. I remain proud of our "disproportion" and the humanitarian aid we let pass into Gaza. I remain proud that there are wounded Palestinians in our hospitals. I remain proud of our humanness. I remain proud of our gutsy cabinet. I remain proud that after sixty-something years we still hunt Nazis and that we hunted the Munich games perpetrators, Abu-Jihad and the rest. I might need to feel ashamed at some isolated incidents, but will deal with those later because they are a tiny minority and do not reflect policy.

We will remain strong enough to fight to survive only if we are armed with: some history; an understanding of enemy mentality; unequivocally support Israel and spew out internal criticism from the good-for-academic pacifists during times of war.

Laurence Seeff

Original content is Copyright by the author 2009. Posted at ZioNation-Zionism and Israel Web Log, http://www.zionism-israel.com/log/archives/00000653.html where your intelligent and constructive comments are welcome. Disributed by ZNN list. Subscribe by sending a message to ZNN-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. Please forward by e-mail with this notice, cite this article and link to it. Other uses by permission only.

Click to Reddit! Facebook Share

add to del.icio.us

Add to digg - digg it

Replies: 31 Comments

Why does no one admit that many angry Palestinians would be content with a return to the pre-1967 borders, a return to dignity, and a state of their own? It is because Israel has no intention of treating the Palestinians with the respect that indigenous people deserve. When you stand with Lipni, Barak, and especially Netanyahu, you stand with Bush, Sharon, Nixon, Kissinger, Stalin, Hitler, Lenin, Napoleon, and yes, Columbus. In short, you stand with the most prolific murderers of the modern world. Congratulations, and I sympathize with your inevitable disappointment, found at the doorstep to the next life, when you realize that you are "chosen" only to repay your gross significant karma.

Jesse Cargill, Friday, January 30th


Yes you have a point!
Can you please explain how that is done?

Please doż philosophize...expalin exactly please, step by step, and I'll show you that Israel has does her best, that is, without committing suicide.

It is very easy to view airy philosophy when you don't live on the ground n close proximity with hostile neighbors.

Go on....Jo


Laurence Seeff, Tuesday, January 27th

Excellent commentary. Why should the Jewish people in Israel allow non-Jews to decide the fate of Israel or even the "storyline" of the conflict forced upon Israel by terrorists? The non-Jews of the world fund, arm and train the enemies of Israel, spin the storyline to portray these enemies as resistance to occupation then attempt to coerce Israel into "peace" with ever more concessions of land and sovereignty. Take this to the logical extent and the Jews of Israel will end up confined to a small area of Israel, surrounded by well funded and armed enemies. I don't think so. The Jewish people deserve to live free and unharmed in their homeland and if that end requires violence then violence it will be.

Southern Wolf, Monday, January 26th

LBNAZ why thank you kindly for your pity, but it would be wasted on me. I deserve the pity of none.

And just to set the record straight, nobody leads me.

Kind regards for your reply - JO

JO, Sunday, January 25th

JO, I pity you and your leaders who think they benefit from credulous finger wagging steeped in sanctimony, ignorance and bigotry.

LBNAZ, Sunday, January 25th

History teaches us that the Jews have been picked on and abused.

Just like the abused child can grow up to be an abusive parent so have the Israelis.

Maybe it's time the Israeli Jews grew up, stopped telling lies to justify their brutality and looked upon this conflict through the eyes of reasonable ADULTS.

The leaders on both sides are in fact violent and cowardly.

When the good people of Gaza and the good people of Israel stop allowing their disgusting leaders to f*ck with their minds in a violent and self defeating manner we may be able to discuss peace - as mature adults - rather than stupid little brats.

If one of your children had an argument with a neighbor's child how would you go about solving the conflict.

Blow the crap out of your neighbor or seek mediation of some type.

Grow up the lot of you - so far all I can see (on this site) is the childish rationalization for violence - from both sides.

I know quite a few Jews and call them my friends, as I do Muslims. It breaks their hearts to see what is happening but it would appear many on both sides are simply gullible sheep getting led around by disgusting and unscrupulous and cynical leaders.

This site supports that no end.

Grow up the people of Israel and Gaza - your leaders are taking you into very dark places which will be very difficult to escape.

It will be the fair minded people of Israel and Gaza who can solve this problem. We must give them all the love and support we can.

From someone who has no axe to grind. I simply would like to see everyone in the ME to grow and prosper in peace.

Kind regards to you all and please ask yourselves this question:

Who profits from war?
Who encourages war?
Are your leaders sacrificing the lives or others for the benefit of who?

JO, Friday, January 23rd

Mr Zouhair Ghadban,

In your comments of 1/13/09, you made your frame of mind transparent to all when you wrote,
"Palestinians are not children that Israel is in charge of babysitting..." How skillfully you twist the 'reality' you claim so to value. Israel has never taken the role of Babysitter. Her actions have always been consistent with her declared intentions which are to live peacefully, and protect her people.

Israel took the role of Policeman in Gaza because there was no Gazan Agency who could or would.
Why did they have to serve as Policemen? Because they had to stop those Hamas agents who chose to sneak into Israeli towns and Deliberately select as their targets for murder innocent civilians who were attempting to do normal things like shopping, going to school, or having a party.
And more recently, to bring the seven years of Rockets fired, not into IDF forces, but into Israeli communities.
Such atrocities would not be tolerated by any Nation.
Even once.

Regardless of any other arguments, this sort of malignant action (especially when repeated many times) is sufficient violation of the Geneva Conventions to place the perpetrators, and all those who support them, outside of the protections provided by those Conventions.
You can go the UN WebSite and read them for yourself, if you have the courage to open your mind to it.

Israel's commitment has been to take every measure to avoid the accidental loss of Palestinian lives. Their objectives in this, as in every preceding battle, has been to stop the opposing armies from destroying them and the people they protect. And to give prompt medical attention to any person who needs it, Israeli, Palestinian or whoever.

I doubt there are many people left in the World who would not know the fate of any wounded Israeli who might be found by a Hamas agent.

Hamas, on the other hand has publicly and repeatedly applauded and rewarded the horrors committed by their agents, and have encouraged them to commit more of them.

When an Israeli is suspected of committing any sort of crime, he is tried and, if found guilty is punished: he is not made into a 'Hero' shown to every child as a model of behavior, as is done routinely by Hamas.

And please notice, neither Israel nor I seek to harm nor impede the actions of any Palestinian who (as our New President said so eloquently) is willing to open his fist and accept Israel's - always available - extended hand of peace and friendship.

You don't believe this?
Why not suggest that your friends in Gaza give it a try?

Norman Singer, Thursday, January 22nd

Ah Ami, Laurence and friends,
You are the best! I answer your questions and then you ask me the same questions. I love you guys, all of you!J May you and your perceived enamies all know real peace, harmony, compassionate love, sympathetic joy and liberation from the bondages of all mental defilements. This has been a wonderful conversation, thank you.

z.ghadban, Tuesday, January 20th

We must fight the terror hungry Hamas group find them hiding every rock and Murder them. I love Israel so much I want everyone to see us kill everyone in Gaza so they know what we will do to Christians if they take the wrong exit.

WIN WIN SITUATION, Sunday, January 18th

Mr Z,
You have a wonderful philosophy and admire great people and we should all stive to adhere to your great intentions.
You choose to write philosophy and don't relate to any REAL world issues. Ami put you face to face with videos and content which you have not related to. Why is that?
You see, Israel is faced with these videos and calls for annihilation. They are not philosophical or lofty calls but rather very REAL and have been translated into action - Real suicide bombers, real rockets etc).
According to your philosophy, Hamas should be preaching peace to the people to change their oultook instead of launching rockets at CIVILIANS.
Well, Mr Z. if you can change that and/or show me Hamas peace lovers and preachers calling for love and prosperity alongside Israel, I'll buy tractors and plant seeds.


Happy planting,


Laurence, Tuesday, January 13th

Dearest Ami and friends,
My mind is a special place and I choose not to fill it with more reasons to join your side or their side in this dispute. I fill my mind with information that serves it in a healthy way. Because I choose not to spend my valuable hours on this planet and in this body on violent videos of anger and hatred does not mean Iím not well intentioned. It may even mean that I trust you. Iíd much rather spend it watching videos of enlightened people, peaceful people, loving, compassionate and couragious people or ďThe Lion King with my beautiful boy. I would simply like the same for you or anyone Israeli or Palestinian.
As far as my ignoring reality goes, possibly, but I am dealing with a reality based on my own truth as I experience it through the content of my mind and within the framework of my own body. You can do the same. Right now. The ideaís I put forth are not mine, they donít belong to me, they belong to life or the listener. I donít own them so no I, ME, MY or Mine really. As far as ego goes, I agree I have a lot to learn and there are many facts, I know itís convenient for us to say there is only one set of facts but thereís as many as there are people in this world. If Palestinians misery is on account of their own doing than what is Israelis misery on account of?
Israelís anger is there because itís there. Hey if you squeeze an orange you get orange juice. If you squeeze you or a Palestinian, you get anger. External solutions for internal problems. No matter how much you squeeze Jesus or Moses or Ghandi or Nelson Mandela or Mother Theresa or Martin Luther King, you get love and compassion. We both know how much they were squeezed. Am I saying I can match them? Most likely not but Iím willing to try and Iím sure if most people in the Middle East had the inclination they would too.
We all know what brought about the Hammas and itís thinking in 1928. Palestinians are not children that Israel is in charge of babysitting, when to have the lights out what to trade or buy, who to do business with. They are people just like you who are aware of their right to freedom. Dominance, control or oppression simply does not work and the world is learning it. It did not work in South Africa, America, Ireland, Britain, India or Germany. Sooner or later people will be free, the Jews of all people can understand this I imagine.
Israel, or America or any other country with deadly powerful weapons is like kid with a large stick who walks around checking that no one else has the same stick. Of course these countries may see themselves as having the moral high ground but whoís doing the majority of the killing? If you win at war, any war, it just means youíve killed and destructed the most. When America launched its attack on Iraq on the basis it had weapons of mass destruction, I found it entertaining. This coming from the Country that not only posses the greatest collection of weapons the world has ever known, but itís the ONLY country to have ever used them and not just once. Thereís the kid with the big stick that does not anyone else to have one.
The minds involved in the crises and dispute can not possibly consciously make healthy decisions to resolve it because THEY ARE THE MINDS THAT CREATED IT. Something in the minds has to change in order to create change. I am sure that sounds reasonable. ďIf you always think the way youíve always thought; youíll always feel the way youíve always feltĒ. We have the power to buy tractors instead of Tanks, seeds instead of bullets and build bridges instead of walls. The choice is oursí always ours. With every tank, F-18, rocket and grenade a county or group of people buy, they are saying to the world; ďWere prepared for warĒ. Each purchase of a weapon or production of a weapon is the product of some thought and that thought is of fear, unrest, anger, and ill will. And thatís what the Universe sends it. What one thinks becomes a physical reality. But our physical realities, your home, your garden, your children and your weapons were all at one time simply thoughts.
For all those looking for a resolution. Here it is; Think differently. No need to learn about your enemy or how to operate highly evolved sophisticated weapons or equipment. Learn to think differently. Learn how to operate you mind. Instead of having sophisticated weapons have a sophisticated mind. Itís cheaper!
If you donít want to be at war, donít be at war. If you donít want to be angry, donít be angry regardless of how people treat us. I mean isnít that integrity? It has nothing to do with other peoples actions. You simply follow through on your intentions regardless of the cost.
Israel as a Nation is harming itself, Hammas is harming itself. Just because they are unaware of it does not mean it is not happening. It just means they are unaware of it happening.
The minds weíve appointed as Minister of defence are not the best people for the job because of the thoughts they occupy. The best ministerís would be the people we could not hire to protect us in the way we want to be protected. People like Jesus or Ghandi or Nelson Mandela. Maybe even call them the Minister of Peace. Do most countries even have a minister of peace? We simply have the unhealthy minds making unhealthy decisions on both sides of the fence in my opinion.
Bottom lineÖeverybody wants to be happy and live in a peaceful loving environment.
Both groups just believe the way to do it is by war or controlling others.
Sorry to hear that Davidís intelligent and well-informed comments were removed. His wisdom will be missed. The Idea that David abused the Page by an ď Irrelevant polemic that was longer than the articleĒ, I found very funny- what was he writing about? A tabouli recipe? Does that mean I better not write intimate well investigated details that challenge the team strategy or my thoughts and opinions will be removed? Who is judging the criteria of this page? I know who ever removed his remarks is better than that but for now that is their choice. It will change in time.
I wish you, every Israeli, Palestinian the same regardless how you may view me and my ideas, Love, peace of mind and the courage to forgive.

Z.Ghadban, Tuesday, January 13th

Brilliant article Lawrence.Sick and tired of the media.Forcing peole to think that Israel is in the wrong.They dont remind you that Israel is suppling water and electricity to the people of Gaza.It is not targetting civilians unlike Hamas.Get real, Israel has to defend itself.If it didnt it would be in the sea...It has to show it is here to stay.The blood is on Hammas's hands.They dont care about there own people, if they did they would'nt force this reaction out of Israel.
If there was another soloution the Jew's are intelligent enough to have tried it by now.

Tal, Tuesday, January 13th

Dear Laurence,
Your article sent goose bump through my spine. I, and my friends and family are proud of you. It is because of you and your coligues that we,in the diaspora, can walk around the streets with heads up. Thank you for your excellent work in the field and for your excellent article.
Am Israel Chai!

Rachel, Monday, January 12th

Dear Laurence,
Thank you very much from the bottom of my heart for your understanding of our situation, for your hot-tempered heart.
I am sorry for my poor English (it is not my native language).
I was very glad to see papers by russian journalists here (I have red them in Russian). I think, it is worth to translate into English a paper by Victor Shenderovitch "An angle of reflection" (Виктор Шендерович "Угол отражения"). It is a very good answer about "disproportion" , about "the deaths of innoncent children".
Be healthy and strong.


Inna, Monday, January 12th

When will it end? When one side gives up.

Either the Jews have to walk into the sea, as Hamas demands, or else Hamas has to give up its goal, stated in its charter, of a completely Islamist middle east.

There is no middle way -- it's not about where borders should be, or whether Gaza should be Judenrein -- which is has been since Israel completely withdrew.

Israel has been left no choice but to use force to stop the murderous missiles from Hamas, an organization that serves as a proxy for the imperialist mullahs of Iran.

Kevin Jon Williams, Monday, January 12th

I have also been fighting the disinformation, lies, and anti-Semitism online. Though I wasn't surprised, it's disheartening to see so much of it. It's like it's ok with the UN and the rest of the world if people in Southern Israel are killed, maimed, have property damaged, and probably most importantly, have to live in constant fear that the next attack may be the one that injures or kills them or a loved one. No one should have to live that way.

When Hamas not only refused to halt, but increased the missile attacks, Israel had to attack, and Hamas and their Iranian masters knew that. They also knew that by storing munitions in mosques, hospitals, schools, and living areas, and using their fellow Palestinians as human shields, there would be a high civilian death toll.

This is their take on win-win. If they kill Israelis, they win, and if they force Israel to respond militarily, they will use the civilian deaths as a propaganda tool, and also win. As far as Hamas is concerned, they can't lose.

The world needs to stop falling for the same tricks over and over again. When the war is over, Europe will once again shower the Palestinians with money, which they will once again use to rearm, instead of building up their society as intended. It's the cycle that goes on and on.

Steven, Monday, January 12th

As a sometime critic of Israeli policy, I have to say that I see very little to criticize in this operation. Israel is accomplishing the dirty work for all of Western civilization in attempting to weaken, and perhaps destroy, a movement that has as its stated ends the reduction of women to chattel, the persecution of minorities, and ethnic cleansing; and violence as a means to those ends.

But at the end of the day, the argument is not a moral one; it is a strategic one. If Israel is not permitted to complete this task, it will give footing to countries like Iran that consistently oppose Western interests in all possible strategic ways. While publicly all Arab countries are opposed to this action of Israel's, privately each and every leader of every Arab country even remotely associated with Western interests is hoping that Israel will go even farther than it has announced it plans to. The stakes are quite high, because if Israel fails, Iran will be seen to have won, and much reassessment will take place.

I suggest that critics of this operation reconsider their strategic vision, and accept that even though war is sometimes ugly and always immoral, it can be necessary for the greater good of society.

Mark Kennet, Monday, January 12th

All the dialogue is interesting. The basic problem is quite simple. It is ANTI-SEMITISM. I believe most of the criticsm of Israel and the US is fundamentally a form of anti-semitism disguised as intellectual dialogue.

sol kutner, Monday, January 12th

Mr Z Ghadban your articles remind me so much of a column I read a year or so ago where the writer was urging the same message of peace and tranquility between people and nations but whose perspective was changed immediately when he was peacefully contemplating the great writers and driving his car in Jerusalem and a huge piece of concrete was thrown through his car window and having the effect of sharpening his perspective immediately.

You are not living in the real world Mr Z.

Hamas is committed to obliterating the state of Israel. Read their Charter.

Hamas kindergartens and schools train their children to hate, to kill, to aspire to martyrdom. Watch their own Tv programmes on youtube.

Ask yourself why Hamas has not built shelters for their civilians. If you are teaching martyrdom as a route to Paradise, there is no need for shelters
and the toll of human life lost is shouted like a badge of honour and as more cause to hate the enemy.

You are the one with problems of mental unwellness. Think about the dissociative state. Someone removed from reality and in a world of one's own.

Talk peace with the Sikhs in your own country - and count the casualties.

Talk peace with Pakistan fighting the Taleban terror on their borders - and count the casualties.

But do not criticise those who are forced to live with the reality of Hamas as a near neighbour refusing every opportunity for a peaceful, tranquil, and prosperous life for its people while blinded with hatred and religious fanaticism.

Lee, Monday, January 12th


Thank you so much for your honesty and, yes, your anger. I wish all Jews, especially my fellow Americans, would realize this is an unfortunate, but necessary, war. I am 100% behind Israel for each and every reason you mentioned. Thank you!

Stephanie, Monday, January 12th


Don't waste your breath on "Wow." He gave the game away with his comment about Jews monopolizing the media. So we know where he comes from. He blames Israel for protecting its citizens with bomb shelters so that not more of them were killed. In contrast, Hamas sacrifices their own as "martyrs" to the cause. You won't find a single bomb shelter in Gaza - but lots of tunnels for smuggling weapons.

Carlos, Monday, January 12th


Hate does blind all logic and common sense. Unfortunately you missed something - I hope it is not hate-caused blindness.

"are you so cold & cruel that the even the deaths of innoncent children don't raise any concern in your heart?"
I addressed this so much so that I may forgive for death my own but will remain sore at being forced into a situation where unfortunately and sorrowfully and sadly and tragically I took an innocent life.
That is how cold I am Wow.

If Israel went into Gaza with children in front of tanks the numbers would be the same. If Allah is Great and will turn Gaza into an Israeli graveyard, where is he and why is the Hamas leadership hiding in burrows?

If we targeted the innocent, the numbers might be close to a million within three hours. We do not and never will, unlike the Hamas (thank God).

You forgot to argue any point. Your only reference is a mere 17 or 18 Israelis, which seems to be quite ok with you. I guess you are very emotional about those 17 or 18.


Your comments are welcome.

Maybe watch this video http://www.memritv.org/video.html and see why (unfortunately once again) there are civilian causalties in Gaza.


Laurence, Sunday, January 11th

When will it stop?

It will stop when the US and Europe make it clear to Arabs, Palestinians, and especially Palestinian terrorist organizations that they will never have what they want. There are only two choices for the Palestinians leadership: negotiate or be destroyed.

As long as the Palestinian leadership believes that it can convince the rest of the world to pressure Israel into compromising its own security, this will never end. Those who claim to "support" the Palestinians unwittingly prolong the conflict by criticizing the Israelis when the Palestinian leadership is actually responsible.

Amy Tuteur, Sunday, January 11th

i am so happy that i am not you.
all that hate in your heart is such a shame. i pity you. are you so cold & cruel that the even the deaths of innoncent children don't raise any concern in your heart? 200 innoncent children murdered in 10 days vs rockets that haven't touched a person..oh i mean 18 over 7 yrs?
the whole world is watching in shock & complete disgust....thank god for the web, you can't monopolize the media anymore.

wow, Sunday, January 11th

You ask "When will it stop?"

All that Hamas needs to do is say "we'll stop firing rockets into Israel." That's it.
That's the end of the fighting, and civilians getting killed (on both sides). But their "morality" just cannot accept such an option. It is against whatever fanatic code that drives them (and their instigators in Iran).

I'm not going to go into morality because I am convinced there is no debating with a fanatic. For better or for worse, the only tools at my disposal are logic and common sense - not morals (because I know they are worthless as an argument)!
Unfortunately, fanatics can NEVER rely on logic and common sense to explain their cause - they are locked inside their ideology, and NO outside argument will faze them even a little. It's literally "either agree with me or die!" Peace comes when the fanatics wake up to reality - Yasser Arafat and Fatah are just one example.

I can point out that Hamas "morals" included throwing Fatah memebers out of buildings and using civilians as human sheilds. Of course there is "disproportion" - if we sent civilians in front of tanks, the numbers would be equal.

Have a good day and love your children more than you hate the Jews.(Golda Meir)


Laurence Seeff, Sunday, January 11th

You ask "When will it stop?"

All that Hamas needs to do is say "we'll stop firing rockets into Israel." That's it.
That's the end of the fighting, and civilians getting killed (on both sides). But their "morality" just cannot accept such an option. It is against whatever fanatic code that drives them (and their instigators in Iran).

I'm not going to go into morality because I am convinced there is no debating with a fanatic. For better or for worse, the only tools at my disposal are logic and common sense - not morals (because I know they are worthless as an argument)!
Unfortunately, fanatics can NEVER rely on logic and common sense to explain their cause - they are locked inside their ideology, and NO outside argument will faze them even a little. It's literally "either agree with me or die!" Peace comes when the fanatics wake up to reality - Yasser Arafat and Fatah are just one example.

I can point out that Hamas "morals" included throwing Fatah memebers out of buildings and using civilians as human sheilds. Of course there is "disproportion" - if we sent civilians in front of tanks, the numbers would be equal.

Have a good day and love your children more than you hate the Jews.(Golda Meir)


Laurence Seeff, Sunday, January 11th

Mr Zouhair Ghadban,
I asked you to view videos. Obviously you did not view them. Had you done so, you would have known that they are not "videos of both sides" - they are Hamas videos, explaining what they intend to do in their own words. Hamas explaining that they will use civilians as shields.

I asked you to read the Hamas charter http://mideastweb.org/hamas.htm. You did not do so. That is not "Zionist propaganda" - it is Hamas in their own words.

So you are no longer well intentioned. You are ignoring facts and reality because they do not fit your ideas. You are pushing an idea, because you are ego involved with that idea. The idea has become more important than truth.

It is possible for everyone to have their own "narrative" but there is only one set of facts. Yes, Palestinians are certainly miserable. But the source of their misery, particularly in Gaza, is their own leadership.

Yes we are angry. We are angry because we face a movement of self-declared genocidal religious fanatics who have filled the world with a lot of propaganda, and who use their own people as hostages. We are angry because people like you help to spread this propaganda out of wilful ignorance.

It is possible to have dialogue when people will listen to each other. But we can't have dialogue if you refuse to look at the same things that we see. I have seen all the heartbreaking pictures of dead babies in Gaza and believe me it affects me and every sane Israeli. How could it not? But I also saw pictures of little children in military uniforms, little children taught to love the bee who kills Jews and the rabbit who kills Jews. The philosophy behind Hamas did not start in 1967 or 1987. It started in 1928, when Hassan al Banna founded the Muslim Brotherhood. He is quoted in their charter. This is not Sari Nusseibeh protesting the occupation. It is a movement that perverted Palestinian society for its own ends.

David abused the comment page to write an irrelevant polemic that was longer than the article, quoting every BS anti-Zionist shiboleth. The post was removed. He can write what he likes in Stormfront and Rense.com and counterpunch and independent. You wrote "Very well said David. You are a man of great wisdom." So you have passed judgement, and decided that Zionism is evil and that my people have no right to self determination. Then you make believe you are neutral. That is not honest and it is not "good intentions."

Ami Isseroff, Sunday, January 11th

Thank you, my comments are well meant and because I am well meaning and committed to it I keep producing that in my life. The blame game can be so tempting but itís not for me anymore. There are plenty of videos on either side portraying the other as evil. Iíve been there done that and have little or no interest in it. I see both sides as they are. In Turmoil.
Comparing Hammas with the German war machine would at least require that they own an airplaneÖ.or even two. Any group of people whoíve been oppressed for long enough will begin to loose all sense of mental balance. This is why Israel is so afraid to let them govern themselves because it is aware of the underlying hatred. Israeliís and Palestinians are both unhappy and feel threatened. Both groups are filled with misery and no amount of fighting will diminish that. Even if Israel manages to defeat the Palestinians it will have itís own conscience to deal with and continue to an existence of constant threat as it has for the past 30 or so years, so again there will be no peace of mind. Israel will have accomplished nothing new. Israeliís deserve to live in peace as any other person on the planet. Not because their Israeliís or Jews but because their human beings. There is room for everyone on this planet. I just know itís more important how we treat one another than it is which tribe we belong to. My wish is in the years to come you may find that treating your neighbour with love, compassion, understanding and forgiveness may be of service to you too.

z.ghadban, Sunday, January 11th

I think your comments are well meant. Hamas insists that they want a culture of death. See videos - THEIR videos at http://zionism-israel.com/israel_news/2008/12/protest-against-perpetrators-of-gaza.html

Take a look at this as well:

Read the Hamas charter:
The quote from al Banna is significant - Al Banna died in 1949. There was no occupation then.

Contrary to wishful thinking propaganda, Hamas have reiterated over and over that they stand by their charter.

Telling people not to chose sides against Hamas is like telling people not to choose sides against Nazis or child molesters or serial killers.

Ami Isseroff

Ami Isseroff, Sunday, January 11th

When will it stop?

They will stop when, and only when they (Israel, Palestinians, Americans, Africans, china and any group or individual) realize every act of violence against another violates thier own experience of peace. However I'm sure they would say they're determined to prove otherwise similar to the fly thatís determined and committed to buzzing its way through glass. It will buzz away till it's died trying and be none the wiser. When counties that use Weapons, walls or dominance to create peace, safety or protection for themselves realize that creating peace does not happen in the physical world, that it happens first in the mind then it will stop. When peace first happens in the mind it's impossible for you to attack or violate anyone because no thought of ill will, anger, animosity or hatred is being created. It will stop when people come out of their ignorance and realize you canít create peace with geography or a piece of land or segregated group. Simply put when we are mentally well instead of mentally ill. My compassion, understanding and empathy go to both sides who buy into the illusion that they are different from one another. They are both in a state of pain, sadness, discomfort, anger, unrest, hatred, fear, mental turmoil and lack of peace. They are in fact very much alike. When we choose or generate hate against anyone it is us that suffers first. Even before, actually long before the ďhatedĒ party or parties know of our outrage or become victims of our hate, we suffer first. Hate is a negative emotion and generates all kinds of negative chemicals within ones own mind, that's why we feel agitated, irritated, anxious and frustrated. It's nature and our bodyís way of simply saying; don't choose hate.
I am deeply saddened by all this hatred I read. And so the cycle of ignorance, and anger continues. Ah but does it? We as a race are slowly waking up, it's painful and there's resistance but we are waking up. Greatness is generations in the making and so is brutality. I am hopeful simply because I see on mass people becoming aware of themselves. The top selling books now are by Deepak chopra or Wyne Dyer or Eckart tolle. Who are these people you may ask? Good question; why not find out?
In the decades to come there will be great shifts and they won't be by nations first, they will be by individuals that purify their own minds of all negative thoughts of harm, ill will, hatred anger, animosity, resentment and vengeance. It will happen on both sides of the fence in the Middle East. Soon, very soon.
My invitation is this, first be aware of your own anger and hatred and realize that we cannot help anyone in that state of mind, all we've done is simply choose which side of the hate circle we stand, but make no mistake, were still in the same circle. I challenge you not to choose sides, instead see everyone as the same, unable to break out a cycle of violence and hatred. If you can do this you have managed to generate equanimity in your own mind and avoid the same mental reactions that let to this dispute in the first place. This does not mean you donít care, it means you are now in psychological position to create long-term permanent change, something thatís much needed in the Middle East and around the world.

Z. Ghadban, Sunday, January 11th

Very well said David. You are a man of great wisdom.

Z. Ghadban, Sunday, January 11th

Constructive comments, including corrections, are welcome. Do not use this space for spam, publishing articles, self promotion, racism, anti-Zionist propaganda or character defamation. Inappropriate comments will be deleted. See our Comment policy for details. By posting here, you agree to the Comment policy.


Please take our reader survey!

Our Sites

Zionism News Net
Zionism-Israel Pages
Brave Zionism
IsraŽl-Palestina.Info (Dutch & English)
Our Blogs
Israel News
IMO Blog - IsraŽl & Midden-Oosten (NL)
Israel Like this, as if
Zionism News Net
Israel & Palestijnen Nieuws Blog
IsraŽl in de Media

Blog Roll:
Adam Holland
Blue Truth
CIF Watch
Contentious Centrist
Dutchblog Israel (NL/EN)
Harry's Place
Ignoble Experiment
Irene Lancaster's Diary
Israeli-Palestinian Conflict
Jeff Weintraub Commentaries and controversies
Jewish Issues Watchdog Meretz USA Weblog
Meryl Yourish
Middle East Analysis
MidEastWeb Middle East Web Log
Modernity Blog
Pro Israel Bay Bloggers
Point of no return
Simply Jews
Something Something
Tempting Topical Topics
The Augean Stables
Unplugged Mike
Oy Bay! San Francisco Bay Area Jews
Vital Perspective
Israel Mon Amour
Liberty & Justice
On the Contrary
Magdeburger Chossid
Tulip - Israeli-Palestinian Trade Union Assoc.
Southern Wolf
Sharona's Week
Sanda & Israel
Fresno Zionism
Anti-Racist Blog
ZOTW's Zionism and Israel News
Zionism On The Web News
ZOTW's Blogs
Christian Attitudes
Dr Ginosar Recalls
Questions: Zionism anti-Zionism Israel & Palestine
Liberal for Israel

A Jew with a view
Realistic Dove
Christians Standing With Israel - Blog
SEO for Everyone
Vision to Reality: The Reut Blog
Calev's Blog
Candidly speaking from Jerusalem
Dvar Dea
Ray Cook
Shimshon 9

Mark Halawa

This link space is 4 your blog - contact us!

Other Web sites and pages:

PeaceWatch Middle East Commentary Christians Standing With Israel
Zionism On the Web
Guide to Middle East, Zionism
Z-Word blog
Labor Zionism
Le Grand Mufti Husseini
The Grand Mufti Hajj Amin El Husseini
ZNN - Zionism News Network Middle East
Euston Manifesto
Jewish Blogging
Peace With Realism
Israel Facts (NL)
Space Shuttle Blog
Love Poems
At Zionism On the Web
Articles on Zionism
Anti-Zionism Information Center
Academic boycott of Israel Resource Center
The anti-Israel Hackers
Antisemitism Information Center
Zionism Israel and Apartheid
Middle East, Peace and War
The Palestine state
ZOTW Expert Search
ZOTW Forum


Judaica: Jewish Gifts:

RSS V 1.0

RSS V 2.0

Help us improve - Please click here to take our reader survey

All entries copyright by the authors and or Zionism-Israel Information Center. Please forward materials by e-mail with URLS. Other uses by permission only.